1 00:00:01,234 --> 00:00:02,102 Hey, space nerds. 2 00:00:02,102 --> 00:00:07,007 Jacob: This is a special video episode of NASA's podcast, Curious Universe. 3 00:00:07,073 --> 00:00:10,076 We have so many more stories for you to discover. 4 00:00:10,276 --> 00:00:15,048 So choose your adventure at NASA.gov/Curious Universe. 5 00:00:15,115 --> 00:00:16,816 All right, let's go. 6 00:00:16,816 --> 00:00:18,585 I just want to get straight into the fun stuff. 7 00:00:18,585 --> 00:00:22,989 So, like, if you and I are in a spaceship and we're headed straight toward 8 00:00:22,989 --> 00:00:24,124 a black hole. 9 00:00:24,124 --> 00:00:26,326 Like, what is that going to be like for us? 10 00:00:26,326 --> 00:00:28,228 Like, what's happening? 11 00:00:28,228 --> 00:00:29,863 Ronald: It's going to get weird really fast. 12 00:00:29,863 --> 00:00:31,131 Okay. 13 00:00:31,131 --> 00:00:35,835 [Music ] 14 00:00:36,102 --> 00:00:39,105 Jacob: Our universe is a wild and wonderful place. 15 00:00:39,305 --> 00:00:42,609 And in this podcast, NASA is your tour guide. 16 00:00:42,675 --> 00:00:44,811 I'm your host for today, Jacob Pinter. 17 00:00:44,811 --> 00:00:49,549 In this episode, buckle up because we're diving into black holes. 18 00:00:49,616 --> 00:00:54,187 They are some of the most mysterious objects in the universe. 19 00:00:54,254 --> 00:00:57,857 Ronald Gamble will help us understand what we know about black holes 20 00:00:57,957 --> 00:01:00,627 and what's left to find out. 21 00:01:00,627 --> 00:01:04,064 We'll debunk some of the biggest myths about black holes, 22 00:01:04,130 --> 00:01:10,036 and we'll answer some burning questions sent in by you, the listeners. 23 00:01:10,103 --> 00:01:11,137 Ronald Gamble is 24 00:01:11,137 --> 00:01:14,140 a theoretical astrophysicist at NASA. 25 00:01:14,174 --> 00:01:18,678 Now, just to set the record straight, he hasn't actually been inside a black hole. 26 00:01:18,745 --> 00:01:19,846 No one has. 27 00:01:19,846 --> 00:01:22,982 But as a NASA astrophysicist, Ronald knows 28 00:01:22,982 --> 00:01:25,985 what's going on in there better than just about anybody. 29 00:01:26,119 --> 00:01:30,123 Ronald: A black hole is a is a region of space time, right? 30 00:01:30,190 --> 00:01:30,457 Jacob: Yeah. 31 00:01:30,457 --> 00:01:35,462 Ronald: You know, space and time where the gravity is kind of so immense, 32 00:01:35,528 --> 00:01:38,465 where planets, stars, galaxies, smaller 33 00:01:38,465 --> 00:01:42,001 galaxies, even light, photons, can't escape out. 34 00:01:42,102 --> 00:01:47,974 And they are very, very complex objects, but they're very simple at the same time. 35 00:01:48,041 --> 00:01:52,512 Jacob: Now, we still have tons of questions about how black holes work. 36 00:01:52,612 --> 00:01:56,316 But thanks to physicists like Ronald, we're learning more about them all 37 00:01:56,316 --> 00:01:57,550 the time. 38 00:01:57,550 --> 00:02:00,920 Ronald is one of those scientists who is constantly surrounded 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,523 by long strings of numbers. 40 00:02:03,590 --> 00:02:04,090 Ronald: The best 41 00:02:04,090 --> 00:02:07,894 way I can describe it research-wise, is if you see ... picture 42 00:02:07,894 --> 00:02:11,664 Einstein or somebody at a chalkboard writing all these equations, that's 43 00:02:11,664 --> 00:02:13,133 what I literally do all day. 44 00:02:13,133 --> 00:02:15,635 A lot of math. It's a lot of science. 45 00:02:15,635 --> 00:02:18,838 But kind of finding ways to mash those things together. 46 00:02:18,872 --> 00:02:20,974 Physics, quantum physics, 47 00:02:20,974 --> 00:02:24,811 electromagnetism, space-time, relativity, all of that 48 00:02:24,878 --> 00:02:29,282 all together kind of gives you an idea of what's happening around black holes. 49 00:02:29,349 --> 00:02:32,485 Jacob: The math tells us that as we approach a black hole 50 00:02:32,485 --> 00:02:37,557 in our hypothetical spaceship, we will pass a point of no return. 51 00:02:37,624 --> 00:02:41,094 Now, black holes rotate, just like planets or stars. 52 00:02:41,161 --> 00:02:46,666 And once we get close enough, we start to rotate along with the black hole. 53 00:02:46,766 --> 00:02:50,436 It's like we're stuck on some kind of interstellar merry-go-round. 54 00:02:50,537 --> 00:02:52,639 So space-time is literally being dragged around. 55 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:53,540 You have no choice. 56 00:02:53,540 --> 00:02:53,907 Jacob: Okay. 57 00:02:53,907 --> 00:02:56,643 Ronald: Reality itself is being dragged around the black hole. 58 00:02:56,643 --> 00:02:57,010 Jacob: Okay. 59 00:02:57,010 --> 00:03:00,747 Ronald: But as you get closer, then you'll approach something called the event 60 00:03:00,747 --> 00:03:04,017 horizon. And right on the edge before that, 61 00:03:04,083 --> 00:03:07,320 if someone were watching you, right? I always make the joke of throwing 62 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,657 my brother into a black hole. Sorry. 63 00:03:10,757 --> 00:03:11,958 You’re the tester. 64 00:03:11,958 --> 00:03:14,194 But he would freeze on the surface. 65 00:03:14,194 --> 00:03:14,961 There would be a point. 66 00:03:14,961 --> 00:03:16,629 And we call that an infinite redshift 67 00:03:16,629 --> 00:03:20,567 surface where the light that's emitted from you stops. 68 00:03:20,633 --> 00:03:22,936 Jacob: Wow. Ronald: That's it. 69 00:03:22,936 --> 00:03:28,241 So that's the last image that you will see, right, of us going into the black hole. 70 00:03:28,308 --> 00:03:29,209 Jacob: From there, 71 00:03:29,209 --> 00:03:33,713 our trip only gets more bizarre, and probably more scary. 72 00:03:33,813 --> 00:03:35,915 Depending on the size of the black hole, 73 00:03:35,915 --> 00:03:39,319 we may go through a process called spaghettification. 74 00:03:39,419 --> 00:03:42,589 That means the black hole put so much force on us 75 00:03:42,689 --> 00:03:46,392 that our bodies stretch way out ... like noodles. 76 00:03:46,492 --> 00:03:48,995 Ronald: We don't know what's inside. Jacob: Sure. 77 00:03:48,995 --> 00:03:51,998 Ronald: Maybe my old quantum homework is in there. 78 00:03:52,165 --> 00:03:54,400 You are under a lot of gravitational pressure, 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,806 meaning all of the gravitational force that is a black hole is now on top of you. 80 00:03:59,806 --> 00:04:03,576 And you’re continuing to fall, fall closer and closer to the singularity or what 81 00:04:03,576 --> 00:04:07,647 we would then consider the center of the black hole, which again, 82 00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:10,483 you are falling an infinite amount of space. 83 00:04:10,483 --> 00:04:15,388 So space-time inside of a black hole behaves very different 84 00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:16,923 than it does outside. 85 00:04:16,923 --> 00:04:18,992 Jacob: As we fall toward infinity, 86 00:04:18,992 --> 00:04:23,263 it may get extremely bright and incredibly hot. 87 00:04:23,329 --> 00:04:26,266 And then it's like someone flipped a switch. 88 00:04:26,266 --> 00:04:27,967 No more light. 89 00:04:27,967 --> 00:04:30,970 And after that, no one knows. 90 00:04:31,070 --> 00:04:32,705 Ronald: If we could go there, I 91 00:04:32,705 --> 00:04:37,176 please collect some information and send it back. 92 00:04:37,277 --> 00:04:41,281 Jacob: Now, there are some obvious challenges to studying black holes. 93 00:04:41,381 --> 00:04:42,915 They're far away. 94 00:04:42,915 --> 00:04:48,187 No light can escape them, and in many ways they're just weird. 95 00:04:48,254 --> 00:04:51,257 But we manag to learn about them in two main ways: 96 00:04:51,524 --> 00:04:55,161 We gather observational data, like looking through a telescope. 97 00:04:55,228 --> 00:04:58,765 We can observe how the stuff around black holes behaves. 98 00:04:58,831 --> 00:05:02,268 That's because it puts out types of light our eyes can't see, 99 00:05:02,335 --> 00:05:04,837 including X-rays and radio waves. 100 00:05:04,837 --> 00:05:06,572 We can study those. 101 00:05:06,572 --> 00:05:11,644 And then we have theory: using math and physics to unpack what's going on 102 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:12,578 in there. 103 00:05:12,578 --> 00:05:16,115 So black hole researchers actually have a lot to work with. 104 00:05:16,215 --> 00:05:19,185 And we find black holes all over the universe. 105 00:05:19,452 --> 00:05:22,121 Some are about the same mass as our sun. 106 00:05:22,121 --> 00:05:25,325 Others are much, much larger. 107 00:05:25,425 --> 00:05:28,328 Take our own Milky Way galaxy: in the center, 108 00:05:28,328 --> 00:05:32,031 which, don't worry, is too far away to cause us harm here on Earth, 109 00:05:32,098 --> 00:05:34,934 there is a supermassive black hole. 110 00:05:34,934 --> 00:05:40,707 It's about the mass of 4 million suns, and other black holes are even bigger. 111 00:05:40,807 --> 00:05:42,875 Ronald Gamble studies black holes 112 00:05:42,875 --> 00:05:46,379 with a blend of old fashioned math and computer based modeling. 113 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:48,715 He knows a dozen different coding languages, 114 00:05:48,715 --> 00:05:52,785 and he's also a mentor to young scientists trying to break into the field. 115 00:05:52,852 --> 00:05:56,489 So I wanted to back up and hear where he started. 116 00:05:56,589 --> 00:06:01,094 I was hoping that you can tell me kind of your superhero origin story. 117 00:06:01,194 --> 00:06:04,464 Like, when did you realize that astrophysics 118 00:06:04,464 --> 00:06:08,801 and black holes were going to be, like, your thing? 119 00:06:08,901 --> 00:06:11,204 Ronald: My mom would say four years old. 120 00:06:11,204 --> 00:06:14,640 I would say there's a villain arc in there somewhere. 121 00:06:14,707 --> 00:06:18,244 But, yeah, four years old, I'm in front of my solar system. 122 00:06:18,244 --> 00:06:19,245 A little placemat. 123 00:06:19,245 --> 00:06:22,682 Probably tossin’ my mashed potatoes somewhere 124 00:06:22,749 --> 00:06:24,984 and I'm asking my mom “does the Sun have fire?” 125 00:06:24,984 --> 00:06:26,152 So, at four years old. 126 00:06:26,152 --> 00:06:27,053 So I'm like, Okay. 127 00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:30,590 She's like, okay, I need for you to be in camps somewhere. 128 00:06:30,723 --> 00:06:34,894 I watched Carl Sagan, I watched Bill Nye, 129 00:06:34,894 --> 00:06:39,565 and then things like Magic School Bus, it just kept getting more curious 130 00:06:39,565 --> 00:06:43,002 and more curious, and I kept asking more questions. 131 00:06:43,069 --> 00:06:44,036 So that's how I got into it. 132 00:06:44,036 --> 00:06:46,639 And then I discovered all the things that we didn't know. 133 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:48,007 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: about the universe. 134 00:06:48,007 --> 00:06:50,410 I'm like, Okay, well, I'm going to study those. Jacob:Yeah. 135 00:06:50,410 --> 00:06:51,277 Ronald: What's dark matter? 136 00:06:51,277 --> 00:06:54,514 What's dark energy? What's ... There's new stuff about black holes 137 00:06:54,514 --> 00:06:55,715 we have to discover. 138 00:06:55,715 --> 00:06:58,117 So that's, that's how I'm in this. 139 00:06:58,117 --> 00:06:59,252 It's a lot of fun. 140 00:06:59,252 --> 00:07:02,955 Jacob: I think a lot of us have a hard time picturing 141 00:07:02,955 --> 00:07:06,225 how researching black holes actually works. 142 00:07:06,292 --> 00:07:08,995 Like, I'm not very good at math, if I'm honest, I can't code. 143 00:07:08,995 --> 00:07:12,799 I'm just wondering if you can kind of put me in your shoes for, like, 144 00:07:12,965 --> 00:07:15,902 a typical day or a typical project. 145 00:07:15,902 --> 00:07:16,202 Ronald: Yeah. 146 00:07:16,202 --> 00:07:21,040 So right now I'm working on a code 147 00:07:21,140 --> 00:07:26,612 that's going to describe or simulate how high energy particles like electrons 148 00:07:26,679 --> 00:07:29,549 kind of rotate around the black hole and then get blasted off in a jet. 149 00:07:29,549 --> 00:07:30,516 Jacob: Okay. Yeah. 150 00:07:30,516 --> 00:07:33,953 Ronald: So part of that work involves looking at plasma physics. 151 00:07:33,953 --> 00:07:36,422 It looks looking at 152 00:07:36,489 --> 00:07:38,257 kind of numerical calculus. 153 00:07:38,257 --> 00:07:40,393 So that’s kind of doing calculus on the computer. 154 00:07:40,393 --> 00:07:43,196 But then also, how do I incorporate 155 00:07:43,196 --> 00:07:46,833 those very theoretical things with the observational data? 156 00:07:46,899 --> 00:07:50,570 Jacob: Yeah. So tell me more about like that, that 157 00:07:50,570 --> 00:07:54,340 that difference of that breakdown between observational and theoretical. 158 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:57,343 Because I think, again, for those of us on the outside, 159 00:07:57,343 --> 00:08:00,046 black holes are just so 160 00:08:00,046 --> 00:08:04,383 they're so spooky and so mysterious that it's it can be hard for us 161 00:08:04,383 --> 00:08:09,055 to tell what we have observed, you know, in the data for sure. 162 00:08:09,288 --> 00:08:12,158 And then what people like you are theorizing in, 163 00:08:12,158 --> 00:08:16,395 you know, in your through math equations on your chalkboard and so forth. 164 00:08:16,496 --> 00:08:19,165 Ronald: Yeah. So we have to ... 165 00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:21,901 The first thing I'll say is black holes are actually very simple. 166 00:08:21,901 --> 00:08:26,439 So we only need about three or four numbers to actually describe a black hole. 167 00:08:26,439 --> 00:08:30,376 Mass, spin, might be the area of the event horizon. 168 00:08:30,610 --> 00:08:33,613 Right. And the charge. 169 00:08:33,613 --> 00:08:37,416 So black holes do have some charge on the surface, but that's it. 170 00:08:37,650 --> 00:08:40,686 Jacob: Charge like positive, negative? Ronald: Positive or negative, 171 00:08:40,686 --> 00:08:43,022 you can think of a charge collecting around a black hole. 172 00:08:43,022 --> 00:08:45,858 Kind of like static charge. Well, it's collecting up, right? 173 00:08:45,858 --> 00:08:49,028 But those four numbers are kind of what 174 00:08:49,028 --> 00:08:53,132 we use to kind of funnel in our observational data. 175 00:08:53,232 --> 00:08:58,938 And then how do folks like you take that and kind of run with it and theorize, you know? 176 00:08:58,938 --> 00:09:04,544 Ronald: We do... Jacob: the next part. Ronald: what's called bad math, and then we correct with good math 177 00:09:04,644 --> 00:09:05,545 that's called modeling. 178 00:09:05,545 --> 00:09:09,248 So we, we work to kind of fill in the gaps for that observational data 179 00:09:09,248 --> 00:09:12,451 and we again, it's as simple as turning the crank on the math. 180 00:09:12,618 --> 00:09:15,621 Jacob: As we keep cranking through the math, 181 00:09:15,721 --> 00:09:19,225 we're finding new ways that black holes can surprise us. 182 00:09:19,292 --> 00:09:23,663 Once matter or light falls into a black hole, it doesn't come out. 183 00:09:23,729 --> 00:09:25,464 That's what makes them black. 184 00:09:25,464 --> 00:09:31,404 But just outside the black hole, there's a swirling disk of hot, bright gas. 185 00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:36,275 Most of that gas ends up inside the black hole, but not all of it. 186 00:09:36,342 --> 00:09:41,614 Some of the gas shoots off, racing away at almost the speed of light in a stream 187 00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:46,085 that can be incredibly long, like millions of light years. 188 00:09:46,152 --> 00:09:49,021 Those streams are called relativistic jets. 189 00:09:49,021 --> 00:09:52,491 And when one of those jets happens to point straight at Earth, 190 00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:54,160 we give it a special name: 191 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:55,595 Blazar! 192 00:09:55,595 --> 00:09:58,531 Ronald: You can think of them as kind of black-hole lasers or lighthouses. 193 00:09:58,664 --> 00:09:59,298 Jacob: Okay. Ronald: Right? 194 00:09:59,298 --> 00:10:02,568 So they're coming not inside the black hole because nothing can come out. 195 00:10:02,602 --> 00:10:04,537 Jacob: Yeah Ronald: But they're coming right off the surface. 196 00:10:04,537 --> 00:10:05,104 Right? 197 00:10:05,104 --> 00:10:09,108 Part of the reason why they get blasted off is due to the magnetic 198 00:10:09,108 --> 00:10:12,144 fields around black holes, and there's hot plasma 199 00:10:12,144 --> 00:10:15,448 and everything kind of circling around like a soup. 200 00:10:15,514 --> 00:10:19,885 Eventually it will spew out and that is what a jet is. 201 00:10:19,952 --> 00:10:25,291 There are still unknown questions as to why the black hole spews a jet out 202 00:10:25,391 --> 00:10:29,328 and why these particles go from zero to light speed in an instant. 203 00:10:29,495 --> 00:10:30,296 Jacob: Wow. Ronald: Yeah. 204 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:33,799 So that's part of my research: trying to figure out the why. 205 00:10:33,899 --> 00:10:35,601 Jacob: Maybe this is a weird question. 206 00:10:35,601 --> 00:10:38,471 You tell me, but do you have a favorite black hole? 207 00:10:38,471 --> 00:10:40,640 Ronald: I do, yeah. 208 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,008 Yeah. So, well I have 209 00:10:42,008 --> 00:10:44,243 two favorites right now. Jacob: Okay. 210 00:10:44,243 --> 00:10:48,014 Ronald: One is – and I'm going to give you the catalog name– 211 00:10:48,014 --> 00:10:48,547 Jacob: Please. 212 00:10:48,547 --> 00:10:50,316 Ronald: We don't have formal names. Jacob: I'll, I'll look it up. 213 00:10:50,316 --> 00:10:52,718 Ronald: One is M87. So you might have heard about 214 00:10:52,718 --> 00:10:53,352 M87 215 00:10:53,352 --> 00:10:56,222 Sag A*, is the black hole at the center of our galaxy, 216 00:10:56,222 --> 00:10:59,592 but M87 is kind of a, what I call a well-behaved black hole 217 00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:00,926 Jacob: Okay. Ronald: It’s playing nice. 218 00:11:00,926 --> 00:11:03,195 It’s very tilted at a nice angle for us to observe. 219 00:11:03,195 --> 00:11:03,829 Jacob: Okay. 220 00:11:03,829 --> 00:11:06,866 Ronald: Giving us great data, but the other one 221 00:11:06,866 --> 00:11:09,969 is called TSX 0506 +056. 222 00:11:09,969 --> 00:11:12,338 Jacob: Okay. Ronald: That's a lot of stuff there. Jacob: Sure. 223 00:11:12,338 --> 00:11:14,907 Ronald: But it is a very high energetic, 224 00:11:14,907 --> 00:11:19,111 very variable blazar that is giving us weird data. 225 00:11:19,111 --> 00:11:21,514 It's blowing everything off the charts. 226 00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:23,382 It's very ... it's extremely bright. 227 00:11:23,382 --> 00:11:25,418 It's one of the brightest things you might see in the sky. 228 00:11:25,418 --> 00:11:27,687 Jacob:Wow. Ronald: With your telescope, Of course. 229 00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:29,055 Jacob: Sure. Sure. Ronald: It’s very far away, but 230 00:11:29,055 --> 00:11:32,758 It is giving us some really cool data, some really cool physics. 231 00:11:32,892 --> 00:11:34,160 Jacob: Cool. 232 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,296 You know, black holes are super, super popular. 233 00:11:37,296 --> 00:11:39,131 Like we get questions about black holes 234 00:11:39,131 --> 00:11:40,933 all the time, which we're going to ask you a few of. 235 00:11:40,933 --> 00:11:44,737 But it makes me wonder, are there any misconceptions 236 00:11:44,737 --> 00:11:48,307 about black holes that you hear a lot that you keep having to clear up? 237 00:11:48,441 --> 00:11:50,676 Ronald: I’m so glad you asked. Jacob: Yeah. 238 00:11:50,676 --> 00:11:56,215 Ronald: One of the ... one of the ... I would say the the most widely known misconception 239 00:11:56,315 --> 00:12:00,286 is when you type in black hole on Google and you might see like a funnel picture. 240 00:12:00,486 --> 00:12:03,055 Jacob:Yeah. Ronald: Black holes are spheres. Jacob: Okay. 241 00:12:03,055 --> 00:12:04,957 Ronald: So they're not a funnel. Jacob:Yeah. 242 00:12:04,957 --> 00:12:07,159 Ronald: You can’t just fall into it. 243 00:12:07,259 --> 00:12:08,260 It is it's a sphere. 244 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:12,198 So and not only is it a sphere, it's not a perfect sphere, 245 00:12:12,264 --> 00:12:15,835 so it’s kind of flattened at the poles because it rotates so fast. 246 00:12:15,935 --> 00:12:19,572 So you can think of it as kind of like a very fat football, right? 247 00:12:19,572 --> 00:12:20,873 Jacob: Yeah. Okay. Ronald: Or an egg shape. 248 00:12:20,873 --> 00:12:21,240 Jacob: Okay. 249 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,243 Ronald: From the top down, it looks like a circle. 250 00:12:24,243 --> 00:12:27,279 It's got that symmetry, But from the side, it's flattened. 251 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:28,380 Jacob: Huh,wow. 252 00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:29,682 Ronald: Yeah. Jacob: Trippy. 253 00:12:29,682 --> 00:12:31,484 Ronald: Yeah. 254 00:12:31,484 --> 00:12:36,789 [Music] 255 00:12:37,022 --> 00:12:38,390 Jacob: When it comes to black holes 256 00:12:38,390 --> 00:12:41,894 Ronald is curious about pretty much everything. 257 00:12:41,961 --> 00:12:45,664 But here on this show, we also like to know what you're curious about. 258 00:12:45,731 --> 00:12:49,101 We want to hear what questions you would ask a NASA expert. 259 00:12:49,201 --> 00:12:52,671 And it turns out a lot of you were curious about black holes. 260 00:12:52,772 --> 00:12:55,241 So we picked some of our favorite listener questions 261 00:12:55,241 --> 00:12:58,244 and I put Ronald in the hot seat. 262 00:12:58,377 --> 00:13:00,546 The first question came from Ashley. 263 00:13:00,546 --> 00:13:03,115 They listened to a previous episode of Curious Universe 264 00:13:03,115 --> 00:13:05,384 called Inside a Black Hole. 265 00:13:05,384 --> 00:13:06,185 In that episode, 266 00:13:06,185 --> 00:13:10,156 we mentioned a quantum physics phenomenon called Hawking radiation. 267 00:13:10,222 --> 00:13:13,225 It's named after the famous physicist Stephen Hawking. 268 00:13:13,259 --> 00:13:18,130 The idea is that little by little black holes can actually evaporate, 269 00:13:18,197 --> 00:13:21,133 although it would take something like trillions of years to disappear 270 00:13:21,133 --> 00:13:24,537 completely, which is an almost impossibly long amount of time. 271 00:13:24,603 --> 00:13:28,274 Anyway, Ashley wanted to know more about Hawking radiation, 272 00:13:28,374 --> 00:13:32,545 and they also asked how a star or planet can orbit a black hole. 273 00:13:32,645 --> 00:13:35,614 How can the black hole's gravity hold something in place? 274 00:13:35,748 --> 00:13:38,484 Because wouldn't it simply suck in the planet 275 00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:39,785 or star? 276 00:13:39,785 --> 00:13:41,554 Ronald: Okay, so this is a two-parter 277 00:13:41,554 --> 00:13:44,557 Jacob:Yeah, Ronald: Well, we can talk about Hawking radiation first 278 00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:48,294 Jacob:Okay. Ronald: Because that's the fun one. 279 00:13:48,394 --> 00:13:49,929 Without going into 280 00:13:49,929 --> 00:13:52,665 too deep in the weeds for quantum field theory 281 00:13:52,665 --> 00:13:57,803 hawking radiation, it is a quantum effect, but you are kind of looking at 282 00:13:57,803 --> 00:14:01,941 what the thermal properties of the horizon looks like. 283 00:14:02,074 --> 00:14:05,978 Right? So if I'm zooming in, not on the large scale, where planets, stars 284 00:14:05,978 --> 00:14:08,881 and things get pulled in, but on the very, very small scale, 285 00:14:08,881 --> 00:14:12,318 the particle scale, well, what happens around the black hole? 286 00:14:12,384 --> 00:14:15,387 Some particles may fall in, some may get kicked out. 287 00:14:15,588 --> 00:14:19,558 So we're now going more fundamental to the laws of thermodynamics. 288 00:14:19,558 --> 00:14:19,959 Okay. 289 00:14:19,959 --> 00:14:24,129 As they apply to black holes, hawking radiation is kind of an effect 290 00:14:24,129 --> 00:14:29,468 of one of those laws where the entropy of a black hole cannot decrease. 291 00:14:29,568 --> 00:14:31,403 But on the surface, what happens? 292 00:14:31,403 --> 00:14:34,406 Well, that information can't get lost because it's in our universe. 293 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:34,807 Jacob: Okay 294 00:14:34,807 --> 00:14:38,277 Ronald: We should still have access to it, but it gets thermally radiated. 295 00:14:38,277 --> 00:14:38,978 Right. 296 00:14:38,978 --> 00:14:42,448 But as you kind of radiate away, you're taking some energy away 297 00:14:42,448 --> 00:14:43,649 from the black hole. 298 00:14:43,649 --> 00:14:47,319 Eventually, that black hole area, it will shrink. 299 00:14:47,419 --> 00:14:47,786 Jacob: Okay. 300 00:14:47,786 --> 00:14:50,789 Ronald: The surface area should shrink and if it keeps doing and it keeps doing that, 301 00:14:50,956 --> 00:14:55,661 the black hole will theoretically evaporate due to hawking radiation. 302 00:14:55,728 --> 00:14:58,898 Now that timescales on the order of like 303 00:14:58,964 --> 00:15:01,867 I don’t know,maybe 10 to the 64 years, 304 00:15:01,867 --> 00:15:02,501 that's a long range. 305 00:15:02,501 --> 00:15:05,337 Jacob: So don't wait, don't wait up. Ronald: Don’t wait around for it 306 00:15:05,337 --> 00:15:07,840 But that's hawking radiation in a nutshell. 307 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,042 Jacob: Okay. Yeah, I understood that. I'm with you. 308 00:15:10,042 --> 00:15:11,076 I'm tracking. 309 00:15:11,076 --> 00:15:14,079 So let me let me get to the second part of her question, though, to make sure 310 00:15:14,146 --> 00:15:19,818 Ashley walks away happy, She asked how a star or a planet can orbit a black hole. 311 00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:22,988 Wouldn't the black hole simply suck in the planet or star? 312 00:15:22,988 --> 00:15:23,989 Ronald: Not necessarily. 313 00:15:23,989 --> 00:15:27,760 So it's kind of like the how the moon doesn't necessarily fall in towards the Earth 314 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:28,527 Jacob: Sure 315 00:15:28,527 --> 00:15:31,130 Even though it's locked to the gravity of the Earth. 316 00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:34,033 It carries enough angular momentum, enough spin 317 00:15:34,033 --> 00:15:37,202 to orbit around the Earth and stay in that orbit. 318 00:15:37,303 --> 00:15:40,873 So within the accretion disks of black holes. 319 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:43,108 You could have solar systems, you can have a bunch of ... 320 00:15:43,108 --> 00:15:44,810 you could have thousands of stars, 321 00:15:44,810 --> 00:15:47,680 especially supermassive black holes at the centers of galaxies. 322 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,683 They're just going to continue to kind of orbit around and orbit around. 323 00:15:50,783 --> 00:15:55,554 They do pick up some heat, some speed and eventually the force of gravity 324 00:15:55,554 --> 00:15:59,625 of the tidal forces, if you will, they will start to shred that star apart. 325 00:15:59,825 --> 00:16:02,828 Well, and then and eventually it will fall into a black hole. 326 00:16:02,995 --> 00:16:06,966 Black holes don't necessarily suck things in, they kind of pull them. 327 00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:09,034 Jacob: I hope that answers Ashley's question. 328 00:16:09,034 --> 00:16:10,302 All right, let's go to number two. 329 00:16:10,302 --> 00:16:12,705 This is from Tijana. 330 00:16:12,705 --> 00:16:16,642 “How do scientists at NASA overcome the challenges of studying 331 00:16:16,642 --> 00:16:21,447 the vastness of space and gathering data from such distant objects?” 332 00:16:21,547 --> 00:16:24,950 Ronald: That’s a very big question, Jacob: That’s a big question, yeah. 333 00:16:25,017 --> 00:16:25,951 Ronald: I would say so. 334 00:16:25,951 --> 00:16:28,721 Just like the podcast,we get curious. Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: Righ? 335 00:16:28,721 --> 00:16:30,656 We get curious and we get creative. 336 00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:34,660 So part of being an astronomer, an astrophysicist 337 00:16:34,727 --> 00:16:36,228 and doing the work from the ground 338 00:16:36,228 --> 00:16:38,831 and you're looking at things millions of light years away. 339 00:16:38,831 --> 00:16:40,899 You have to get creative. 340 00:16:40,899 --> 00:16:42,968 The universe is only sending us 341 00:16:42,968 --> 00:16:45,671 a little bit teeny bit of information. 342 00:16:45,671 --> 00:16:47,339 And what are we doing with that information? 343 00:16:47,339 --> 00:16:51,710 Well, we're building things like Roman, James Webb, Habitable Worlds observatories 344 00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:55,481 coming up, LISA, things like that, to gather 345 00:16:55,481 --> 00:16:59,852 those little bits of information that we can get to give us large science. 346 00:16:59,918 --> 00:17:04,656 So we are making giant leaps and bounds. 347 00:17:04,723 --> 00:17:09,762 but part of that is getting younger people to get more interested in the science. 348 00:17:09,762 --> 00:17:12,297 Give us more creative thoughts. Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: Right? 349 00:17:12,297 --> 00:17:13,565 We need a diversity of thought 350 00:17:13,565 --> 00:17:16,301 to kind of do NASA science and that's how we get it done. 351 00:17:16,301 --> 00:17:17,836 Jacob: Yeah, great. 352 00:17:17,836 --> 00:17:18,937 Well, here's our next question. 353 00:17:18,937 --> 00:17:20,406 This one is from Rusty. 354 00:17:20,406 --> 00:17:23,509 This is the one I'm most looking forward to. 355 00:17:23,575 --> 00:17:24,343 Rusty: Hello, my name is 356 00:17:24,343 --> 00:17:27,346 Rusty Ashley, and I live close to Austin, Texas. 357 00:17:27,379 --> 00:17:31,350 And my curiosity is if magnets were created in the Big Bang 358 00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:34,386 and also what would happen if a black hole only 359 00:17:34,386 --> 00:17:37,423 consumed magnetized material and nothing else? 360 00:17:37,456 --> 00:17:41,794 Would that change their fundamental behavior in any way 361 00:17:41,894 --> 00:17:44,229 compared to normal black holes? 362 00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:45,697 Thank you. 363 00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:47,566 Ronald: So here's a common misconception. 364 00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:51,370 Yeah, black holes actually only consume magnetized material. 365 00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:52,304 Jacob: Oh! 366 00:17:52,371 --> 00:17:54,273 Ronald: Because it's technically a plasma. 367 00:17:54,273 --> 00:17:55,541 Jacob: Okay. Ronald: Which is magnetized. 368 00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:58,544 Jacob: Okay Ronald: So if you take anything that has charge 369 00:17:58,710 --> 00:18:02,147 and you’re rotating around in an orbit, it will create a magnetic field. 370 00:18:02,214 --> 00:18:04,550 Jacob: Okay, Ronald: That's physics 101. Jacob: Yeah. 371 00:18:04,550 --> 00:18:08,921 Ronald: So pretty much you can think of everything that falls in is kind of magnetized 372 00:18:08,987 --> 00:18:09,788 to some extent. 373 00:18:09,788 --> 00:18:14,126 now magnets being created at the Big Bang? 374 00:18:14,193 --> 00:18:18,530 That is, that's an interesting question because one of the questions 375 00:18:18,530 --> 00:18:23,135 that astrophysics ask is, well, where did all the magnetic fields come from? 376 00:18:23,235 --> 00:18:24,403 From objects. 377 00:18:24,403 --> 00:18:29,641 Things like pulsars, magnetars, which you can think of, like as a magnetic star. 378 00:18:29,641 --> 00:18:32,878 Those are the strongest magnetic fields in the universe. 379 00:18:32,945 --> 00:18:35,114 where do these things come from? 380 00:18:35,114 --> 00:18:36,949 You have to go more fundamental than that. 381 00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:40,285 So you have to look at the four fundamental forces of nature. 382 00:18:40,352 --> 00:18:44,123 gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces. 383 00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:45,991 All of those together have to combine. 384 00:18:45,991 --> 00:18:47,693 They kind of squish together, right? 385 00:18:47,693 --> 00:18:52,264 They kind of create a soup to give us things that do create magnetic fields. 386 00:18:52,331 --> 00:18:53,532 There's a lot of physics 387 00:18:53,532 --> 00:18:57,202 involved in the background, so I can't give you, like, the complete. 388 00:18:57,302 --> 00:19:01,340 Jacob: Yeah, Ronald: big-picture cosmological answer, but 389 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,276 that’s why we have a field called physical cosmology. 390 00:19:04,276 --> 00:19:04,843 Jacob: Okay. 391 00:19:04,843 --> 00:19:08,280 Ronald: So that we can discover some of those things in the early universe. 392 00:19:08,347 --> 00:19:09,982 Jacob: So the short answer is ... Ronald: The short answer is 393 00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:12,651 Jacob: Stay tuned? Ronald: Stay tuned! 394 00:19:12,651 --> 00:19:13,852 there's a Nobel Prize somewhere 395 00:19:13,852 --> 00:19:16,855 Jacob: That's right. 396 00:19:17,089 --> 00:19:21,260 so before we wrap up, there's a couple other things I want to ask you about. 397 00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:24,396 One of them is art, because I have seen, 398 00:19:24,396 --> 00:19:27,399 like art and graphics that you've made, 399 00:19:27,533 --> 00:19:30,169 and I was just blown away like they were really good. 400 00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:32,571 Ronald: Thanks. Jacob: How did you get started doing that? 401 00:19:32,571 --> 00:19:33,906 Like, what is that side of you 402 00:19:33,906 --> 00:19:38,410 Ronald: I have been probably doing art since I was a kid. In undergrad, 403 00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:40,679 I majored, double majored in physics and fine art. 404 00:19:40,679 --> 00:19:42,281 Jacob: Wow. Ronald: So I have a minor in fine arts. 405 00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:42,581 Jacob: Okay. 406 00:19:42,581 --> 00:19:45,517 Ronald: But it helps to kind of combine left and right brains. 407 00:19:45,517 --> 00:19:48,787 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: For me, I couldn't separate them 408 00:19:48,854 --> 00:19:51,957 and it really helps kind of visualizing the science. Helps 409 00:19:51,957 --> 00:19:55,360 you learn better to really visualize some of these complex things. 410 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,963 What is a, how do I draw a black hole? 411 00:19:57,963 --> 00:20:00,999 Well, again, it's a sphere, but pinch it maybe. 412 00:20:00,999 --> 00:20:02,067 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: Right? 413 00:20:02,067 --> 00:20:06,238 So it's those things, and then the math comes into play, right? 414 00:20:06,305 --> 00:20:08,607 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: Thank you, Pythagorean theorem. 415 00:20:08,607 --> 00:20:11,043 for giving us triangles. 416 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:14,846 Jacob: I'm always really curious how people who are really good at science 417 00:20:14,846 --> 00:20:18,684 bring in, like all of the rest of their lives into 418 00:20:18,684 --> 00:20:21,720 that, like all of their other interests and the way that they tackle problems. 419 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,791 Like, do you think that being an artist or being interested in art 420 00:20:25,791 --> 00:20:27,526 makes you a better scientist? 421 00:20:27,526 --> 00:20:29,328 How do you how do you see that? Ronald: I think it does. 422 00:20:29,328 --> 00:20:34,199 So, it ... me being in theory, I have to come up with new physics 423 00:20:34,266 --> 00:20:38,637 or new ways to describe physics in very creative ways. 424 00:20:38,704 --> 00:20:42,808 We have a finite amount of math and physics that we've discovered so far. 425 00:20:42,808 --> 00:20:44,776 Jacob: Sure. Ronald: So we have to use it all, right? 426 00:20:44,776 --> 00:20:49,147 So it's again, like a kind of 427 00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:49,948 a chalkboard. 428 00:20:49,948 --> 00:20:51,450 It's like a blank canvas for me. 429 00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:54,219 You know. Well, I got to start from scratch. 430 00:20:54,219 --> 00:20:57,889 I'm like, okay, well, one equation, it's like a Lego, and if I keep stacking, 431 00:20:57,889 --> 00:21:01,827 I might build, you know, a DeLorean or 432 00:21:01,927 --> 00:21:03,662 the Millenium Falcon or something. 433 00:21:03,662 --> 00:21:04,963 And that's what we get. 434 00:21:04,963 --> 00:21:07,199 And then I can break it apart and make something else. 435 00:21:07,199 --> 00:21:08,267 Jacob: Yeah. 436 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:12,337 Ronald: And so I think being a good theorist, being a good scientist 437 00:21:12,337 --> 00:21:15,774 requires an amount of right-brain creativity. 438 00:21:15,774 --> 00:21:16,408 Jacob: Yeah. 439 00:21:16,408 --> 00:21:20,279 Ronald: I think you need a very holistic view of science and how we do it. 440 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:22,881 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: To be really creative. That's how you get the new stuff. 441 00:21:22,881 --> 00:21:25,317 Jacob: Yeah Ronald: Yeah. Jacob: I know that 442 00:21:25,317 --> 00:21:29,154 something else that's a big part of your job and I assume 443 00:21:29,154 --> 00:21:32,691 just kind of like a passion project too, is, is mentoring people. 444 00:21:32,691 --> 00:21:36,261 Why is that so important to you? 445 00:21:36,361 --> 00:21:39,698 Ronald: My kind of mantra is kind of providing 446 00:21:39,698 --> 00:21:44,336 the ... providing the world what I needed most when I didn't receive it. 447 00:21:44,403 --> 00:21:48,206 So it's, mentoring to me is is giving the student, 448 00:21:48,273 --> 00:21:55,180 you know, that that push, that motivation that inspiration, the recommendation 449 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,115 for lack of better words, the mentorship. 450 00:21:57,115 --> 00:21:59,484 Jacob:Yeah, Ronald: Right? And the advocacy. 451 00:21:59,484 --> 00:22:02,454 Some somebody in your corner cheering you on. 452 00:22:02,454 --> 00:22:04,923 Right? Because I didn't have many mentors like that. 453 00:22:04,923 --> 00:22:08,660 I had my few and they were fantastic. 454 00:22:08,727 --> 00:22:14,199 But again, I didn't have many peers kind of doing that, right? 455 00:22:14,299 --> 00:22:17,169 and then, you know, how do you build that confidence in. 456 00:22:17,169 --> 00:22:17,803 In the field? 457 00:22:17,803 --> 00:22:20,372 Astronomy and astrophysics is very ... 458 00:22:20,372 --> 00:22:22,974 it can be very intense. Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: If you don't know how to navigate it. 459 00:22:22,974 --> 00:22:25,110 So that's why I like to do mentorship. 460 00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:26,378 Jacob: Yeah. 461 00:22:26,445 --> 00:22:28,847 What is something that 462 00:22:28,847 --> 00:22:33,018 that either early career scientists or students 463 00:22:33,018 --> 00:22:37,155 or even kids should understand about your job 464 00:22:37,255 --> 00:22:42,594 and what it takes to be successful in the kind of work that you do? 465 00:22:42,661 --> 00:22:44,596 Ronald: It's plain and simple: don't stop. 466 00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:50,402 And I would say like, don't stop, get it get it, but 467 00:22:50,469 --> 00:22:52,104 quite literally, just don't stop. 468 00:22:52,104 --> 00:22:55,540 Yes, there are going to be tons and tons of people that will tell you, 469 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,843 maybe you should choose something else that's a little bit more ... 470 00:22:57,843 --> 00:23:01,513 you can be successful at it. 471 00:23:01,513 --> 00:23:05,183 Or, or the likelihood of you being at NASA is actually very low. 472 00:23:05,183 --> 00:23:08,520 Well, the likelihood of you actually getting NASA's not zero. 473 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,688 Jacob: Yeah. Ronald: Do it. 474 00:23:09,688 --> 00:23:09,988 Jacob: Yeah. 475 00:23:09,988 --> 00:23:15,127 Ronald: So that's the first very first thing I tell people. 476 00:23:15,193 --> 00:23:16,828 Every talk that I give, I'm giving them. 477 00:23:16,828 --> 00:23:18,864 Okay, this is where I started from. 478 00:23:18,864 --> 00:23:23,034 If, if I could get out of here, you can get here too 479 00:23:23,101 --> 00:23:24,035 But another thing 480 00:23:24,035 --> 00:23:29,074 I will say is that again, not only just, you know, not stopping 481 00:23:29,141 --> 00:23:32,144 but also not getting in the way of yourself. 482 00:23:32,277 --> 00:23:34,913 and that, again, will drive you to keep doing it. 483 00:23:34,913 --> 00:23:36,882 If you don't get it the first time, you might get it 484 00:23:36,882 --> 00:23:40,085 the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth time. 485 00:23:40,185 --> 00:23:40,552 Right? 486 00:23:40,552 --> 00:23:43,789 So I've applied to NASA, I think maybe four times. 487 00:23:43,822 --> 00:23:47,759 Jacob: Wow. Ronald: And so you just have to keep being resilient and it will come. 488 00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:52,297 You're like, if you keep working on your dreams, they will become reality. 489 00:23:52,364 --> 00:23:53,665 Jacob: Ron Gamble, thank you so much. 490 00:23:53,665 --> 00:23:54,399 This was so fun. 491 00:23:54,399 --> 00:23:57,702 Ronald: Thanks,thanks for having me. 492 00:23:57,803 --> 00:24:00,005 [Music plays in background] Jacob: Among his many titles, Ronald Gamble 493 00:24:00,005 --> 00:24:03,942 is the director of a NASA program called Cosmic Pathfinders. 494 00:24:04,042 --> 00:24:05,343 That's one way for students 495 00:24:05,343 --> 00:24:09,014 or early-career scientists to get involved with NASA science. 496 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,251 And when it comes to black holes, there is a lot more to learn. 497 00:24:13,318 --> 00:24:16,154 You can find more about NASA's black hole research at 498 00:24:16,154 --> 00:24:19,724 science.nasa.gov/universe 499 00:24:19,825 --> 00:24:22,828 And if you just scroll back through the Curious Universe feed, 500 00:24:22,894 --> 00:24:25,897 you'll find an episode called Inside a Black Hole. 501 00:24:26,031 --> 00:24:26,765 We would love to know 502 00:24:26,765 --> 00:24:30,635 what you're curious about, about black holes or anything else. 503 00:24:30,735 --> 00:24:32,337 So send us an email. 504 00:24:32,337 --> 00:24:37,209 Our address is NASA-CuriousUniverse@mail.nasa.gov.